# Add interactive push and shove router from CERN/kicad/horizon **URL:** \ **Category:** Improvement Ideas\ **Created:** [December 14, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13 "2018-12-14T19:19:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/1 "2018-12-14T19:19:55Z")
_From @kliment on Fri Feb 09 2018 06:38:32 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ Having reviewed the code and horizon’s integration, this should be quite easy to add and gives a lot of useful functionality. If nobody objects, I’d like to start work on it as soon as the board editor is in a usable state. _Copied from original issue: [https://github.com/LibrePCB/librepcb-rfcs/issues/1](https://github.com/LibrePCB/librepcb-rfcs/issues/1)_ ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/2 "2018-12-14T19:19:55Z")
_From @ubruhin on Sat Feb 10 2018 23:40:42 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ Yes, that would be great. Do you know if the router also supports a very simple routing mode which just creates the traces where the user clicks, without any obstacle detection and so on? I mean, similar to the “router” which is currently implemented in LibrePCB. If so, we could completely remove our own router and replace it by the kicad router. Btw, If you have some links to code and/or documentation of the kicad router, could you post them here so we have quick access to the most important information? ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/3 "2018-12-14T19:19:56Z")
_From @dbrgn on Thu Feb 15 2018 09:37:20 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ \> Do you know if the router also supports a very simple routing mode which just creates the traces where the user clicks, without any obstacle detection and so on? Yes, I think so. The interactive router has three modes: ![screenshot](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/uploads/librepcb1/original/1X/5ccb5b10dc395ddca4424127d22aabe9536f7e68.png) If you use “highlight collisions”, then no obstacle avoidance is being done. ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/4 "2018-12-14T19:19:56Z")
_From @ubruhin on Wed Aug 08 2018 21:17:22 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ I started a first attempt with KiCads PNS router, just to get a first impression how much effort is required to integrate it. Still hard to say, but at least I already had a first “hurray”-effect 😃 ![peek 2018-08-08 23-06](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/uploads/librepcb1/original/1X/f8005cdc00c0297ff8c132acb3e474320b4caf79.gif) The code is hacky and buggy like hell, and it doesn’t work at all (nothing gets really connected), but I still like it already 😁 ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/5 "2018-12-14T19:19:56Z")
_From @ubruhin on Wed Aug 08 2018 21:24:38 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ Oh, I just (re?)read your comment @kliment > If nobody objects, I’d like to start work on it as soon as the board editor is in a usable state. What do you mean with “usable state”? And are you still interested in working on this? Actually I wonder whether I should properly implement the current routing tool to make it usable or it’s better to completely replace the current routing tool with the PNS router. If the PNS router also supports a simple routing mode, and the effort to integrate it is similar to the effort needed for improving the current router, then it would make sense to directly integrate the PNS router… ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/6 "2018-12-14T19:19:57Z")
_From @dbrgn on Thu Aug 09 2018 08:36:43 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ Woahh, that is fantastic! I didn’t expect an initial integration attempt that fast 🎉 > Actually I wonder whether I should properly implement the current routing tool to make it usable or it’s better to completely replace the current routing tool with the PNS router. If the PNS router also supports a simple routing mode, and the effort to integrate it is similar to the effort needed for improving the current router, then it would make sense to directly integrate the PNS router… I really like the Kicad router, so I’d be 👍 for that. ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/7 "2018-12-14T19:19:57Z")
_From @rnestler on Mon Aug 13 2018 08:11:27 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ \> I started a first attempt with KiCads PNS router, just to get a first impression how much effort is required to integrate it. Still hard to say, but at least I already had a first “hurray”-effect smiley Do you have this initial version on some branch? ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/8 "2018-12-14T19:19:57Z")
_From @ubruhin on Mon Aug 13 2018 17:33:53 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ \> Do you have this initial version on some branch? Yes: [https://github.com/LibrePCB/LibrePCB/tree/add-pns-router](https://github.com/LibrePCB/LibrePCB/tree/add-pns-router) ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/9 "2018-12-14T19:19:58Z")
_From @dbrgn on Mon Aug 13 2018 17:58:12 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ Since at least 3 projects use this router now (KiCAD, Horizon, LibrePCB) it might be interesting to extract it into a separate repository. Maybe we could suggest this to the original authors once the PoC is done. ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/10 "2018-12-14T19:19:58Z")
_From @ubruhin on Mon Aug 13 2018 18:02:41 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ \> Since at least 3 projects use this router now (KiCAD, Horizon, LibrePCB) it might be interesting to extract it into a separate repository. Yes, that would really be great! 👍 > Maybe we could suggest this to the original authors once the PoC is done. Or even _now_, I don’t see a reason why to wait 😉 Someone interested to do it? @kliment? ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/11 "2018-12-14T19:19:58Z")
_From @kliment on Mon Aug 13 2018 18:04:22 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ The original authors are CERN, as part of the KiCad project. Since they’re in the middle of their most important release ever I doubt this is a good time to ask them to do major code base restructuring. ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/12 "2018-12-14T19:19:58Z")
_From @dbrgn on Mon Aug 13 2018 18:12:47 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ That’s not a major code base restructuring. The router is quite standalone, so it shouldn’t be too hard to extract it into a separate repository. I’ll take a look if I find a developer forum or mailing list to ask 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/13 "2018-12-14T19:19:59Z")
_From @kliment on Mon Aug 13 2018 18:18:18 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ The people in charge of the PnR are Tomasz Wlostowski [tomasz.wlostowski@cern.ch](mailto:tomasz.wlostowski@cern.ch) and Maciej Suminski [maciej.suminski@cern.ch](mailto:maciej.suminski@cern.ch) ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/14 "2018-12-14T19:19:59Z")
_From @dbrgn on Mon Aug 13 2018 19:51:31 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ @kliment thanks! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/15 "2018-12-14T19:19:59Z")
_From @dbrgn on Wed Aug 15 2018 22:56:03 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ Reply: At the moment they’re not interested in extracting the code into a standalone library. That’s fine, we can simply copy the router (it’s GPLv3+ licensed). ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/16 "2018-12-14T19:20:00Z")
_From @ubruhin on Thu Aug 16 2018 06:25:01 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ IMHO it was pretty clear that _they_ are not interested in extracting the code 😉 Horizon and LibrePCB would have much more benefit, so basically it’s _our_ job to create such a library. And if we do it well (I think about CI with many compilers, and even unit/integration tests for the router), KiCad developers may still be interested some time in future to use the standalone library instead of their own copy. So it would be great if someone would start creating such a standalone library 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/17 "2018-12-14T19:20:00Z")
_From @rnestler on Mon Oct 29 2018 11:54:27 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ \> So it would be great if someone would start creating such a standalone library 🙂 I can give it a try. I’ll do it in my personal GitHub account first, we can then still move it to some organization if needed. ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/18 "2018-12-14T19:20:00Z")
_From @ubruhin on Mon Oct 29 2018 22:24:00 GMT+0000 (UTC)_ \> I can give it a try. I’ll do it in my personal GitHub account first, we can then still move it to some organization if needed. Nice! 👍 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ubruhin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c89c15/32.png) [@ubruhin](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/ubruhin)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/19 "2019-03-30T16:27:18Z")
@rnestler What’s the state of this? ---
**Author:** ![Doom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a587f6/32.png) [@Doom](https://librepcb.discourse.group/u/Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 7:50am UTC](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13/20 "2019-10-16T07:50:25Z")
Hi, is there any progression on that ? [Next page](https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/add-interactive-push-and-shove-router-from-cern-kicad-horizon/13.md?page=2)